november 4. ♪ >> good evening, everyone and welcome to the new york city mayoral debate. we are less than three weeks from election date when one of these men will be declared the 111th mayor of new york city. i'm joined by my colleague, liz russo, senior politics editor of political, sally goldenberg and a rosary no. this is a two are debate live on all nbc new york and telemundo 47 streaming and digital platforms. telemundo, political and you too. the first hour is also live on channel four and telemundo 47. we have a few rules. traditional question and answer and you will have one minute to respond and 32nd rebuttals. we will also be asking questions

when we will be looking for shorter answers. we also reserve the right to cut off the microphone if you ignore the roles but you know we don't want to do that. the goal is for you to hear each other and for new yorkers to hear everything you have to say. so good luck. >> thank you, david and good evening, gentlemen. we begin tonight by asking you to do what every mayor dreams of and that is to write your own headlines. imagine it is january, 20 27 and you have been in office for one year. we would like you to quickly give us one headline about what you think your biggest accomplishment will have been in your number -- in your number one. mr. mamdani: first, thank you for sponsoring the debate -- mr. silwa: how many characters in the headline? >> you are familiar with headline length. mr. silwa: rent down, crime down, education scores up, more

jobs in new york city. >> a little longer than your average headline. mr. cuomo: optimism high. mr. silwa: curtis silbaugh is without his iconic red beret because i'm talking to the people of new york city about the really serious issues of affordability, the cost of living and what i spent most of my life doing which is public safety. >> we would love a headline for you. what will be your big headline in year one? mr. silwa: curtis silwa exceeds all expectations and looks very mayoral tonight. mr. mamdani: a pleasure to be here and i want to thank the moderators for the opportunity to speak to new yorkers at this moment in time. the headline would read in about a year, mamdani continues to take on trump and delivers on

affordability. >> thank you. >> we are going to talk about leadership. voters have reservations about all three of you as chief executive of new york city, a city with roughly 300,000 employees and a budget bigger than many countries. we have questions for each of you. as a former governor of new york, you obviously have management experience. you resign from office amid sexual harassment and covid related scandals. why should voters now trust you have the character to be mayor? mr. cuomo: thank you for the question. first, you are right. i left office. there was a report that had allegations of harassment. i said at the time it was a political report. and that there was no basis to it. it was -- five attorneys reviewed it and it was litigated for five years. i was dropped from the cases.

none of that came to anything. when it comes to executive experience, i have run the department of housing and urban development, i've built housing across the nation. i was governor for 11 years. the budget is double what it was in new york city and i got government to work. i passed ground breaking laws, minimum wage, paid family leave, built projects that had never been built before it. this is no job for on-the-job training. and if you look at the failed mayors, they are ones that have had no management experience. don't do it again. >> too wide. in the theme of leadership, mr. mamdani, you work as a foreclosure prevention counselor in the state assembly. you have no substantial management experience. how are you ready to lead the nation's largest and greatest city in the world in one day? mr. mamdani: i have the experience of having served in

the new york city assembly for five euros watching a broken political system. i have the experience of seeking a governor in andrew cuomo who would rather have served his billionaire donors and the working class new yorkers that voted for him. and experienced amongst all of that fighting and winning for working-class taxi drivers to free them from predatory debt, delivered the first free bus lines in new york city and in working with unions and working class new yorkers to raise taxes a little bit on paul most donors to fully fund our public schools. and i have the experience of being a new yorker. someone that has paid rent in the city before i ran for mayor. someone that has to -- someone has -- that has had to wait for a bus that has never shown. what that experience has shown me is that it is far too expensive and far too hard for new yorkers to afford to live in the city and the definition of experience is not doing the same thing again and again and hoping for a different result.

that is the definition of insanity. mr. cuomo: in other words, the assemblyman said he has no experience in this is not a job for someone that has no management experience to run 300,000 people, no financial experience to run a 115 billion dollar budget. he has never had a job on his -- he has never had a job. on his resume he said he entering for his mother. this is not a job for a first timer. any day you could have a hurricane or god forbid a 911, a health pandemic. if you don't know what you are doing people will die. mr. mamdani: and if we health -- and if we have a health pandemic why would new yorkers turn back to the governor that sent seniors to their death. what i don't have an experience i make up in integrity and what you don't have in integrity you can ever make up in an experience. mr. mamdani: which part was false. mr. cuomo: during covid, everyone did what they could and

there have been numerous investigations where they have gone through it and said we followed federal guidance but yes, people died during covid and my heart breaks for everyone that died in this state and across this nation. >> but just to be clear, to fact check, there is a criminal investigation reportedly underway at the doj about your testimony to congress about your nursing home record. mr. cuomo: but that is a political issue with the congress. they made a referral which has gone absolutely nowhere. but there have been multiple investigations where the doj found that the nursing home investigation was politically motivated. >> we are going to move on and we might have time to come back to it. mr. cuomo: may i just finished my rebuttal? but the assemblyman still says he has no experience to do the job. >> ok. as founder of the guardian angels and as a radio host, you

have been a well-known figure in new york city for decades. but you also lack substantial management experience so how are you prepared to be the chief executive officer of new york city? mr. silwa: first of all i created the guardian angels to provide public safety in the subways and streets when government wasn't capable to do so. i did not do it to get a title or a paycheck. secondly i don't declare myself to be all-knowing. i will hire the best and brightest in their fields who have dedicated their lives to trying to improve the city of new york. or the state or the federal government or the private sector. what i will say is thank god i'm not a professional politician. we have the architect and we have the apprentice of no cash bail which has been a disaster. we have the architect and the apprentice that raised the agent

-- we have had the architect and the apprentice to close rikers island that would release criminals into the street. thank god i'm not a professional politician because they have helped create this crime crisis in the city that we face. >> candidates, president trump has expressed intense interest in this election and in all of you personally. mr. mamdani the president called you my little communist. mr. silwa he said you are not exactly prime time. mr. cuomo he said you have always gotten along. the president has threatened to cut federal funds to the city and yesterday he killed the gateway project. you have all promised to resist him in some way. what would you say and your first official call to the president to set the tone for your relationship moving forward? mr. mamdani: i would make it

clear to the president that i am willing to not only speak to him but to work with him if it means delivering on lowering the cost of living for new yorkers. that is something he ran his presidential campaign on but all he has been able to deliver so far is prosecuting his political and them -- enemies and trying to enact the largest deportation program in american history. what distinguishes me from andrew cuomo is a fact that he has gotten on the phone with the same president not asking him how to work together to help new yorkers or not telling him that he would refuse to back down to protect those new yorkers but instead asking him how to win the race. that is something i can do myself. what i would tell the president as if he wants to come for new yorkers, he will have to get through me as the next mayor. mr. cuomo: mr. cuomo we will give you a little extra time but i would like you to answer this question. mr. cuomo: i never had a conversation with the president. he has a distant relationship

with the truth. i would say to the president in our first conversation, look, we have had many battles. we fought together every day during covid. and the battles were bloody and i would like to avoid them. if you come after new york, you know what i'm going to do. you know it will be ugly. and you know my chances are almost 50-50 even though you are the president. i would like to work with you. i think we can do good things together. but number one i will fight you every step of the way if you try to hurt new york. mr. mamdani: unless he weaponizes the justice estimate to go after the attorney general -- and no matter what you think about donald trump you know that not even being able to name him is an act of cowardice and that is what we would see from donald trump's puppet. mr. cuomo: i said political weaponization of the justice

system is wrong. both sides do it. it is wrong when donald trump does it and it was wrong when they did it to call me and it was wrong when comey did it to hillary. >> what would you say to set the tone? mr. silwa: there are high levels of testosterone in this room. i've tried a hate relationship with donald trump that goes back 30 years. i know one thing. we have andrew cuomo, we have surround mamdani and they want to take on donald trump. look, you can be tough but you cannot be tough if it is going to cost people desperately needed federal funds. mr. mamdani, the president has already said he will take $7 billion out of the budget right from the star if you are a elected mayor. people will suffer in the city. people that need those federal funds. what i would say is negotiate. mr. president, we need the gateway tunnel. it moves millions of people from

washington dc to boston. but take away the q train project. we don't need those three stations going -- it is not a necessity. sit with the president and whatever he delegates and try to negotiate but if you try to get tough with prop, the only people that will suffer are the people of new york city. >> a brief response. mr. mamdani: mr. trump has already suspended infrastructure grants to the safety and he is doing it in a blatant act of political retribution. it requires leadership to stand up to him. we do need to extend the 2nd avenue subway to 120 5th street. it was a promise made to harlem decades ago. >> a quick question. mr. cuomo, -- mr. silwa: don't i get a chance to respond? >> when was the last chance used -- when was the last time you spoke with president trump? mr. cuomo: i believe it was

during his assassination attempt. >> last year. mr. silwa: many years ago i spoke with him. we were receiving awards and i was praising him for saving the annual veterans day parade. those are the conversations i had. i was asked about the q train. i am the mayor of mass transit. we do not need a q train. i'm in the subways every day. we have more than a capable system. the infrastructure needs to be fixed. >> have you ever spoken with president trump? mr. mamdani: no. >> mr. cuomo, follow up. president trump has spoken positively about you and your candidacy. even his justice department is reportedly investigating you for allegations that you lied to congress about your covid record. given that dynamic, how can you

stand up to the white house and how are you not compromised? and take into account that new yorkers are troubled about the compromised relationship that they feel. mr. cuomo: first it is not true that there is an investigation about me. congress did a press release and said they sent a letter to the justice department which they do routinely to generate press and that is what that is. i have been -- donald trump investigated me repeatedly with the department of justice. the department of justice and the inspector general said it was politically motivated. that does not back me up. when i am fighting for new york, i'm not going to stop. i will tell you something else, if the assemblyman is elected mayor donald trump will take over new york city and it will be mayor trump who runs new york city. >> you are stating unequivocally

that the justice department is not investigating you, correct? mr. cuomo: i've heard absolutely nothing. >> they could be and you may not have heard it. mr. cuomo: virtually impossible by the way. >> you did put out an ad the day after the news first broke calling it a political investigation saying they were coming after you. mr. cuomo: the republican congress was, yes. i believe they played politics with the justice system. i believe the republican congress does it and donald trump and the democrats which is why i think people are sick and tired of the justice system in the politics. mr. mamdani: if you think there is no difference between the democrat and republican parties, that is the candidate for you. if you think there is time to have a democratic party to stand up to donald trump -- mr. cuomo: you are not a democrat. you are a democrat socially.

you did not vote for kamala harris. right? mr. mamdani: that is an incendiary charge. i will be very quite. i said leave it blank in the presidential primary because primaries are placed to air dissent and like many americans i was horrified by the genocide of palestinians. if you want to look for me on the ballot -- >> we have to move on. this week the world is reacting to president trump's israel and hamas peace deal and the release of the hostages. many are cautiously optimistic about a lasting peace. the mayor has no direct role in foreign affairs and we certainly have a lot of questions for you about city matters but this war has been a major topic of the campaign. and there are criticisms about your positions in the past and how you envision leaving on these issues as mayor. we have questions for all of you but first, for mr. mamdani

because of something you said that has been generating headlines in the news. yesterday on fox news you were asked if hamas should lay down its weapons. some say they found your answer confusing. you said "i don't have an opinion about the future have a loss -- about the future of hamas." so for the voters tuning in tonight, what do you believe about hamas and how lasting peace will be achieved? we know it is a complicated manner. mr. mamdani: of course i believe they should lay down their arms. i am proud to be one of the first elected officials in the state who called for a cease-fire and calling for a cease-fire means ceasing fire. that means all parties have to cease fire and put down their weapons. we call for that not only for the end of the genocide but also

an unimpeded access of humanitarian aid. i like many new yorkers are hopeful that cease-fire will hold. i'm hopeful it is durable and just. and for it to be just we also have to ensure it addresses any conditions that preceded this. conditions like occupation, the siege and apartheid. mr. cuomo: that means it from the river to the sea. mr. silwa: excuse me. there are three people. the president of the united states should have been applauded by you on the day he brought together the international coalition that met in egypt that came from the middle east and the persian gulf. i certainly applauded him for bringing peace to gaza and trying to end of the hostilities in the war between the israelis and hamas so there can be peace

between the israelis and peace between the palestinians. but you seem incapable of praising our president and andrew, -- give credit where credit is due. he has brought peace to gaza. >> mr. cuomo, brief response. mr. cuomo: i did applaud president trump and his administration. i think it was a great accomplishment and i hope the piece holds. the assemblymen will not did announce hamas. he will not denounce hassan piper who said america deserved 911. the assemblymen just said, it depends on occupation. that is code meaning that the israel does not have the right to exist as a jewish state which he has never acknowledged. that is from the river to the sea. that is why he will not denounce the globalized

anti-fado which means kill all jews. mr. mamdani: the occupation is a reference to international law and the violation of it with -- which mr. cuomo has no -- four. and i find the comments that hassan made on 911 to be objectionable and reprehensible and i also think that part of the reason why democrats are in the situation we are in of being a permanent minority in this country is we are looking only to speak to journalists and streamers with whom we agree of every single thing that they say. we need to take the keys to every person and i'm happy to do that which is why i was on fox news yesterday talking about how i wish there was more like nascar so we could see the billionaires response on the suit jacket. >> this flows and then we will go back. you told nbc's meet at the press that you don't believe it is the role of the mayor to police speech. your words about the war have comforted many new yorkers but

troubled others. there is your recent refusal to condemn the slogan -- globalize the intifada which to many is a call to arms. in 20 you wrapped lyrics of a group convicted of supporting terrorism. how would you assure new yorkers that you would be a mayor for all? mr. mamdani: thank you for this opportunity. when i'm speaking about the responsibility of leading this city, i mean leading not just those that voted for me. leading not just those that vote but every single person that calls this city home including jewish new yorkers. i've been so thankful to sit with jewish new yorkers over the primary and the general. it is in those conversations that i learned that this phrase evokes painful memories. memories of bus attacks in haifa and jerusalem. and i heard from a rabbi about

their roommate that was killed on one of those buses. and in hearing that and the distance between that impact and the rationale that some use when speaking about the occupation of this land is when i said i would discourage this language. what i'm looking to do is to ensure we bring every new yorker together, jewish new yorkers, muslim new yorkers and every person that calls at this city home. >> hmmm going to ask a question for us to mr. cuomo. you are a strong supporter of israel but you have also been slow to develop a relationship with the city's muslim community. you have called mr. mamdani a terrorist sympathizer. how do you ensure -- i sure those new yorkers especially arabic new yorkers that you will be a mayor for all? mr. cuomo: i think the assemblymen created the perception himself --why wouldn't he condemn hamas?

why did it take us here tonight for the first time for him to say it? he still won't denounce globalize the intifada which means kill all jews. he won't do it. that is the issue. and his divisiveness is chronic. >> i think you have made the point but can you please answer your relationship about the muslim community. mr. cuomo: i don't think in any way the assemblymen is represented of the muslim community which is a vital community in new york city. and i am very fond of and have been working with. i think he is playing his own politics. many of his positions don't even follow the muslim faith. so i see them as separate. mr. mamdani: it took andrew cuomo being beaten by a muslim candidate and the democratic prime it docked primary for him to set foot in a mosque.

he had more than 10 years and he could not name a single mosque that he had visited in the last 10 years. they want you and respect and it took me to get you to even see those muslims as part of this city and that frankly is something that is shameful and why so many new yorkers have lost faith in politics. mr. cuomo: i've worked with many mosques before you were ever here. before you were ever in state department -- state government i worked with the muslim community. we work in religious working groups. mr. mamdani: you cannot visit a mosque. >> -- mr. silwa: this is what disturbs me about you. you will be celebrating your birthday.

in 1991i was in the cities in crown heights with the guardian angels when the -- with david dinkins who was a proud member -- abandoned the streets for three days and they were left to their own means and we protected them for 30 days and 30 nights. and then your favorite mayor, bill de blasio in 2019 abandoned the jews when they were being attacked in crown heights and i had to bring in the angels again. jews don't trust that you will be there for them when they are victims of anti-semitic attacks. >> a brief response. we have a specific question for you. mr. cuomo: i agree by the way. mr. mamdani: one of the most meaningful experiences i've had over the course of this campaign has been the conversations i've had with jewish new yorkers. they've told me about the door they have had the lock. jewish new yorkers have told me

on the m 57 about an apartment that a speech therapist was trying to sell when the realtor told her to take the jewish books out. i will be a mayor that addresses that and not through the theatrics of the politics but through action. i will do that by ensuring that we have police officers outside synagogues. >> we have a lot to get to. >> you have called for tougher policing of pro-palestinian protests and you have suggested that mr. mamdani uses language that is and. how will you are sure new yorkers that you will be a mayor for all? mr. silwa: i've been there for all people at all times for 46 years as leader of the guardian angels here and around the world. whether it is a religious violation of people's rights to worship in a mosque, a synagogue. whether it is for racial

identity. remember, in the summer of 2020, asians were under constant attack because of the lock down on the pandemic. i don't remember governor cuomo coming to their aid. you were governor then. i was out there going into all of the neighborhoods, flushing and bayside. we were down in bensonhurst. we were in chinatown it self where asians were being attacked indiscriminately because they were thought to be carrying covid. we protected them then. governor, you are not there for them. de blasio was not there for them. we understand hate and in order to counteract hate, you have to get the community involved along with the police to protect people when they were under siege. jews are under attack now more than ever before and i don't think either of you have the capability to protect them. mr. cuomo: that is pure fiction. i passed the no heat in our

state. we tolerate no hatred, no discrimination. we are from every place on this globe. and we are tolerant and we accept. if you notice, the assemblymen still won't say that he believes that israel has a right to exist as a jewish state. he has a divisive personality across the board. nypd is it racist. barack obama is a liar. mr. silwa: your laws turned the haters back into the streets to violate and attack again and again. mr. mamdani: there have been a number of absolutely unfounded lies. i would just like a moment to address them directly. i have said time and again that i recognize the right of israel to exist. i will not recognize in a

state's right to exist with a system of hierarchy based on race or religion. i have made that very clear. i am an american who believes in the importance of equal rights being enshrined in every single country either israel or saudi arabia. you can stand here and lie all you want. >> we want to address some issues. we have another polarizing issue we would like to discuss with you. here in the city of new york. let's go back to the president. one threat hanging over the city is the deployment of the national guard troops like he has done in other cities. the nypd commissioner has rejected the idea as unnecessary. but the president ordered troops to hit the streets of new york. how would you respond? mr. sliwa, you have a minute. mr. sliwa: there is no need for

the national guard in new york. when we had a crime crisis in the subways that i was well familiar with, she since national guardsmen added to the subways. remember the horrible case. does anybody even say her name anymore? that woman who was set on fire by that migrant? the worst crime i have ever seen committed in the subway system. the governor did the right thing. she sent in an additional 250 national guard, making a total of 1000 in the subway system. our mayor was telling us it was all about perception. the governor actually responded. i would tell the president, since i am familiar with cities all across america, if you're going to send in the national guard, you do not have to send them to new york city. there are other cities that could desperately use their

help. >> thank you mr. sliwa. mr. mamdani, how do you respond? mr. mamdani: i agree with the police commissioner that we do not need the national guard here in new york city. if it was safety that president trump was so concerned about, he would send them to the states that have the highest levels of crime in this country but he will not because they are all run by republicans. what new yorkers need is a mayor who can stand up to donald trump and deliver on safety. when he spent ice -- sent ice agents to los angeles, andrew cuomo said new yorkers need not overreact. they are looking for someone who will lead and say they will have their back. someone will actually fight for the people of the city. that is who i am because i am not funded by the same donors who gave us president trump's second term. mr. cuomo: the answer is not more national guard and the

subways, the answer is more nypd. he is not sending in the national guard to do any real function. it is control, power. he is trying to say these democrats do not have run these cities and it is a political gesture by sending in the national guard. he has said if the assemblymen is directed -- elected, he will take over new york. >> if they order the troops to come here, what would you do? mr. cuomo: i went through this with him. he sent the national guard to 20 cities when i was governor. you know who we did not send them to? new york. i said didn't -- don't you dare. we don't need it. he backed down and he will do again. mr. sliwa: the president is going to back down to you, andrew cuomo? i think you know -- i know you think you are the toughest guy alive but you lost your own primary. you were rejected by democrats.

you do not understand what the term no is. you are not going to stand up to donald trump. mr. sliwa: you are not going to stand up to donald trump. and he cannot stand up to donald trump. mr. sliwa: you negotiate with him, you do not fight with him. >> i would like to see a show of hands. are there any circumstances where any of you would allow the nypd to cooperate with the national guard of trump's sent them to new york? no takers. if history is a guide, national guard troops in the city could trigger protests. we have questions for each of you on how you would handle that. mr. sliwa, you have been arrested for protesting migrant housing and for serving the mayor with court papers. how would your nypd handle protests and would you continue participating in protests as mayor?

mr. sliwa: demonstrations have a time in a place. there was a time before bill de blasio that you had to get a time permit. it would be turned around in a day. if there was going to be civil disobedience, you discussed it with the police department and obviously you had an opportunity of expressing your anger or outrage at whatever it was that motivated you to sit down in the street to block traffic. now we have rampaging groups to go running through the streets. they enter all kinds of facilities and violate other people's rights. there is no one who is willing to stop it. when i am the mayor, there are rules and regulations. everybody has the right to demonstrate that you cannot violate everyone's rights or you must be arrested i would remove

the face coverings. why are you afraid of identifying who you are as a demonstrator unless maybe you are an agent provocateur sent in here to cause chaos? >> the next question goes to you, mr. mamdani. you were arrested for blocking traffic in a pro-palestinian protested he participated in a sit in grand central. protesters often lock bridges and streets. how much of that would you allow as mayor and what is your line on having the nypd process -- arrest protesters? mr. mamdani: protest is a part of what makes the city's history what it is. it is part of the first amendment. we deserve to have a mayor he stands up for the first amendment as we have a president who is looking to shred it at each and every opportunity. we will continue to have protests of the city no matter who the mayor is.

the line will be on the question of breaking the law. what we have today is an attempt to demonstrate -- intimidate so many who are using that expression. to be frank with you, new yorkers are looking for someone to show leadership. that is when so many take to the streets. if you have a leader like andrew cuomo who is telling people not to overreact when you see ice agents of ducting girls as young as six years old to deport them, many new yorkers will take to the streets. we deserve to have a leader that is following through on the values of the city. >> a quick follow-up, if you are elected will you still participate in protests? mr. mamdani: if i am elected i will be the mayor and i will be leading the city from city hall. that is the important thing. that is what i will do. mr. cuomo: can i respond? >> a very brief response and then we have a question for you. mr. cuomo: i stood up to ice

when i was governor. i stood them down and they moved out. what the assemblymen is saying is he does not believe in law and order. he believes in defunding the police, disarming the police come disbanding the police. that is who he is. mr. mamdani: very quickly. >> just 15 seconds. mr. mamdani: mr. cuomo lies again and again and again. i'm not running to defund the police. i am working to deliver public safety. andrew cuomo says he has filled up to ice. he has not said a word about what is going on right now. mr. cuomo: it was a comment he made. that was the operative language. >> as governor you put the national guard on standby during the george floyd protests. as mayor, how would you balance the right to protest with maintaining order in the streets. mr. cuomo: the right to protest as a sacred right, no doubt

about that. but the law is the law also. you have new yorkers now who are afraid in the city. they are afraid of donald trump, they are afraid of anarchy, and they are afraid of anarchy in the city itself. we have to provide public safety that helps new yorkers feel safe. violating the law is something else. blocking public transit is something else. stopping students from going to classes something else. harassment and intimidation as a hate crime. that is illegal. enforce the law. respect the police. they are not racists, as the assemblyman calls them. they are not a threat to public safety. they are not anti-queer. they are here to protect new yorkers, work with them, fortify them. mr. sliwa: that is ironic that you say that now. when you were governor for eight

years your parole board released 43 cop killers back into the street. your father would be was governor released none. i knew mario cuomo. you are no mario cuomo, andrew cuomo. [crosstalk] >> do you want to respond briefly to the comments that mr. cuomo raised? mr. mamdani: i have been cleared time and time again that as much as andrew cuomo wants to bring up tweets from 2020 which was around the same time he was sending seniors to their death and nursing homes, i am looking to work with police officers. looking to ensure that officers can do one job when they are signing up to join the department. not the many jobs they do today mental health wise. >> we will come back to that. mr. cuomo: you said they are corrupt and racist. your words. >> despite record low crime numbers polls show that crime remains a top concern for new

york city voters. the three of you have very different approaches to crime fighting and how to manage the nypd. we want to get into your plans. we will start with this question. how we make the city safer and how will you change that nypd? you will have one minute. mr. cuomo: i would add 5000. let's take a step back. the far left and socialists took a billion dollars out of the police. the nypd is now down to the lowest levels in modern history. i would add 5000 police, put 1500 and the subways, raise the starting salary because you cannot hire them, you cannot even fill a class right now. you have to add additional police numbers because the attrition rate is so high. part of that will be saying to the nypd we respect you. we do not feel your wicked. we do not feel you are corrupt. i value you.

i will have your back. i will be a mayor to work with you. that is how you will get the police to apply for the jobs. and then we have to work on the relationship between the community and the police. police cannot police the community. they have to police with the community. mr. sliwa: this is amazing. i'm standing here with my two adversaries, both of whom who have threatened to defund the police. andrew cuomo during the summer of 2020 said it you do not reform police departments, i'd going to defund the. and you certainly said that. we need more police. the problem in recruiting police which neither of you is addressing is that their insurance was stripped from them. you did nothing when you were governor. here in the city in 2021 the city council and eric adams did nothing. they do not have qualified immunity which you benefited

from, andrew cuomo, with the 13 lawsuits filed against you for sexual harassment. we are paying out $60 million. because you had your qualified immunity as governor. and yet people have stood by. they have lost their insurance. that is why you cannot get recruits because they are not insured. i will return their qualified immunity. because they need to be protected like other civil servants. mr. cuomo: that was not new york state, that was new york city. under qualified immunity. it is not insurance. it is new york city that has revoked qualified immunity. it is not insurance. it is qualified immunity. it has nothing to do with insurance. mr. sliwa: mr. sliwa: it protected you and all of these lawsuits. mr. cuomo: yes, because there was a report filed, i said it was political, it turned out to be political.

that is why. mr. sliwa: you are lying. come on, andrea. all 13 women were lying? taste -- a state trooper as well? >> mr. mamdani, how will you make the city safer and how will you change the nypd? mr. mamdani: thank you. this is the concern for somebody new yorkers. i'm proud to have a comprehensive plan to bring new ideas to this city. if you want more the same, vote for andrew cuomo. if you want an actual approach to lower crime, look at our department of public safety. it can address so many of the pieces of wide new yorkers not feeling safe today. we will ensure that no longer are police officers asked to do the job of policing and responding to the mental health crisis. we will have dedicated teams of mental health outreach workers in the top 100 subway stations with the highest level of. mental health crisis and homelessness.

we will ensure that cops can finally go back to the response times they had in 2020, closer to 11 minutes, rather than closer to 60 minutes today because they will not be asked to respond to the 200,000 mental health calls that are coming in 3911 every year. this is evidence-based. it has been successful in other parts of the country. it is time we deliver it right here in new york city. mr. sliwa: we already had it. it was called homeless outreach. >> thank you, mr. sliwa. >> excuse me, mr. mamdani. we are going to talk about disciplining police officers. the civilian watchdog that investigates police misconduct requests discipline but the police commissioner often overrides them. you want to change that policy so the board has final say. please say why you believe the police commissioner should no longer have the final say? mr. mamdani: i have said i think it is time to remove much of the

politics out of the question of accountability. they study and investigate complaints of abuse and abuse of the law. this is subject to political pressures. i think new yorkers deserve a system where they know it will not be more of the recommendation in the investigation that is being done. >> thank you. mr. cuomo, do you believe changes are needed for how officers are disciplined and are there any powers you would give up as mayor? mr. cuomo: i would not remove the police commissioner's. i would leave it with the police commissioner. he does not like the police. that is why he will not hire more police. he wants to use social workers

on domestic violence calls, which are very dangerous. he has told you what he thinks. he thinks the police are wicked, racist, corrupt, and a threat to public safety. those are his words. mr. mamdani: andrew cuomo is a politician of the past and all he can think about is the tweets of the past. those are tweets i have apologize for to new yorkers and police officers directly and they are not what i am actually running on. i am capable of speaking about the platform that we have. >> can we quickly ask you because i think some people have not heard from you, you are saying that you do not believe that anymore but you have apologized. people have not heard you describe the evolution of your thought. how you got from there to here. mr. mamdani: growing up in the city i would think often about safety and justice. and the ways in which that relationship has been harmed. when i learned about the exonerated five, eric garner,

michael brown. in 2020 when i wrote these tweets, learning about the death of george floyd, that was a moment where it felt like the distance between these ideals had never been further. in the coming and assembly member and representing a hundred thousand people in queens, learning that to deliver justice is also to deliver safety. they put their lives on the line. muslims were illegally surveilled in my district. >> mr. sliwa, you have been out there on trains. i would like to know if you believe changes are in need of how officers are disciplined? mr. sliwa: let me suggest to you, excuse me, what you have proposed with this new police outreach unit will endanger women and children in domestic violence situations.

i know, i have been involved in so many of them. they will be killed. in dealing with emotionally disturbed persons that i have dealt with for all of years as a guardian angel, you need trained professionals. >> thank you. ok. thank you, mr. sliwa. mr. sliwa: that has been suggested. >> thank you. mr. sliwa: bill de blasio disbanded them. >> a brief response? mr. mamdani: to be very clear, the department of community safety is about mental health crises in the homeless crisis. this is the focus of the work they will do. >> we want to change the pace a little bit. and address the high cost of living in new york city. to kick us off we have a few quick pocketbook questions that new yorkers to wrestle with daily. we want to know how much you spend per week on groceries. mr. cuomo: it depends on how

many times my daughters come over. probably about $150. >> mr. sliwa? mr. sliwa: i would say about $175 cents a gallon of milk is now five dollars. a simple loaf of bread is like three dollars now. >> thank you. mr. mamdani: i actually agree with curtis on that. my average spend every week is about $125. >> do you carry credit card debt or do you pay it off every month? mr. mamdani: i pay it off every month. mr. cuomo: i pay it off. mr. sliwa: i don't have a credit card, i have a debit card. >> for the record, what is mostly -- her monthly rent or mortgage? mr. sliwa: about $3900. mr. mamdani: $2300. mr. cuomo: he has a rent

stabilized apartment that a poor person is about to have. mine is about $7,800. >> we are going to cover that subject. mr. mamdani: i appreciate that. >> we are going to talk more about the runaway rent in the city. you are pledging to freeze rent for rent-stabilized stabilized apartment spear that affects less than half of all apartments in the city. what is your answer for others who are struggling to pay the rent? mr. mamdani: i am proud to say that i will freeze the rent for more than 2 million tenants. i will also build 200 thousand truly affordable homes across the five boroughs over the next 10 years to ensure that they can actually have more housing such that they are not being priced out of the city. i will make it easier for the private sector to build housing in the city because what i see today is it is not labor or materials, it is the weight that is costing so many so much to build a housing we need in the city. >> a follow-up for you.

the cost of maintaining a building year-to-year, it is legally required to decide those costs. how can you promise a red freeze today before ever seeing the data next year? mr. mamdani: we have seen the data time and again. it is that -- data that has been overruled by mayors again and again. the last studies show that profits were up 12% for landlords. they raise to the rent, adding to more than 12% under the adams administration. what i am talking about is reflecting the needs of these new yorkers and the state of the market today. these are new yorkers who have an average income of $60,000. >> are you saying that answer that you are going to prejudge? you will not have seen the data from next year you will make a determination? mr. mamdani: i have seen the data year after year in the fact that salaries are stagnating, costs are up, new yorkers cannot

afford their apartments. i will also take action to ensure that the landlords of those buildings can better handle their costs. >> i do have a question for you on this subject. you have proposed something that you are calling that law. you think she earns too much to live in his rent-stabilized apartment. critics say your plan would force people to pay too much of their income toward rent. if you think mr. mamdani is gaming the system, what about the other new yorkers just like him who are in similar salaries who are living in similar apartments? mr. mamdani: just to follow-up on what you are saying because you are right. this is not a new plan. it is bill de blasio's plan. it was called freeze the rent. he says the mayor cannot say legally that the mayor can freeze the rent. there are considerations that

have to be looked at. you are right, you cannot say today what it will be in four years. freeze the rent only postpones the rent because then you have to have an increase to cover the costs. otherwise the building will go bankrupt. it does nothing for the majority of renters who are not in these rent-stabilized units. there are nothing for home owners or people in black and brown communities who priced out. i was the hud secretary. i built affordable housing all across this nation. i built affordable housing in the city when i was in my 20's. i will get it done. those are the precious rent-stabilized units. >> we are out of time. sorry. we have to move on. i have a question for you. mr. mamdani: just a very brief response. >> very brief. mr. mamdani: you heard it from andrew cuomo that the answer is to evict my wife and i. he thinks you answer this crisis

by unleashing my landlord's ability to raise my rent. if you think the problem in this city is my rent is too low, vote for him. if you know that the problem in this city is that the rent is too high, vote for me. >> the tenant advocates. mr. cuomo: they would evict no one. >> we have to move on. mr. sliwa: this goes back to the schoolyard. >> we have a specific question. mr. sliwa: i want to talk about affordability and obviously address that issue. >> you proposed plans that would make a point of talking about the struggle of renters and property owners. describe your plan to help renters. >> we have 6000 available apartments that the mayor controls. they have been empty for years. that is the first thing you

address. that we talk about senior citizens who are living here. i am concerned about them. especially those who own homes. if they are 65 and they make less than that amount of money. no property tax because the property taxes way too high. we need to cut it in half to keep the people who are here. in terms of rentals, we have affordable housing that could be built in these huge skyscrapers you see all throughout manhattan and northern brooklyn and long island city. we have 25 empire state buildings full of commercial space that will never be occupied for office space. we should be converting them into affordable apartments. they are in dense areas. the infrastructure can support it. i am the only candidate against destroying residential neighborhoods. >> we are about halfway through.

some channels will return to regular programming. you can continue to watch live on nbc new york. and on youtube. stay with us. there is a lot to discuss. ♪ gentlemen, thank you. that was kind of a natural point for us to transition. we want to talk now about transportation. we have a few quick questions about how to get around town. who has a metro card and uses it? i have one. i am hanging onto the last one. >> you are in the subways. what do you use? mr. sliwa: i get a whole batch. i am in the subways, buses, the express buses.

the only candidate who runs mass transit every day. >> when you need to get somewhere fast and you can't take a train, do you hail a taxi or use rideshare? >> i try to avoid yellow cabs. i find my way around. i uber if i have to. mr. cuomo: i will take a cab or uber. >> thank you. let's talk about free buses. this is a centerpiece of your campaign. can you explain how you will make buses free? >> absolutely. we will make buses free by replacing that revenue. this is less money than andrew cuomo gave to elon musk in tax credits. the reason we will do so is it is not just provide economic relief.

they are the slowest buses in the country. the average speed is 4.9 miles per hour. we will fund the revenue. i have put forward a couple of proposals. one is to put taxes that will raise money. also matching the tax rate of new jersey. >> we will move along. the governor has opposed raising income tax. mr. sliwa: can i address that on the buses? cap the people do not pay their bus fare to begin with. it is a complete disaster. if you have free bus fare and the budget says there is a billion dollars of fare evasion.

this mta system will collapse. they have programs for the poor and indigent. but everybody should be forced to pay their fair. >> you had praise and criticism for mr. mamdani's free bus pilots. you're kind of in the middle on this issue. mr. mamdani: i think free buses is a mistake. it has been done before. it was a disaster. they stopped. they basically became mobile homeless gathering places. free subways for working families. those that subsidize rich people on the bus. it has been tried and failed. >> can you respond quickly on

that point? mr. mamdani: this is something we heard when we were fighting to make dresses -- buses free in albany. there was no increase in homelessness on those buses. there was no increase in fare eevaision. there was an increase in ridership. >> maybe we can dig deeper on this and see how you will pay for your big ideas. let's start with you. we talked about free buses, free childcare, city run grocery stores. you're proposing about $10 million in new spending. and you want to pay for it with tax increases. tell new yorkers tonight how you are going to pay for all of this in one minute. mr. mamdani: a lot of people have called my campaign a nonstarter. now i stand before you proud to

be the democratic nominee who got the most votes in city primary history. i believe we will see the same thing with our push to ensure that we are taxing the wealthiest and most profitable corporations. there are those who said because it is hard, you should give up. we saw what it was like to give up when andrew cuomo was mayor. >> i know the governor indicated this week there may be some open windows but more or less income tax on millionaires is off the table. mr. mamdani: i have said very clearly, making universal childcare a reality cost about five or $6 billion a year. if you raise the state's top corporate tax rate to match new jersey, you would be raising that money.

we have put forward a plan to save money with a billion dollars in savings through procurement reform, following the of budget assessment. >> some follow-ups. which of your priorities would come first? >> freezing the rent does not require any fiscal infusion. we will pursue that immediately. childcare is the second cost pushing new yorkers out. that will be a priority for me. >> i want to know if you could get the money and funding elsewhere, would you drop a call for the tax increase. mr. mamdani: absolutely. the most important thing is funding these agenda items. if the money comes from elsewhere. >> you have been talking about cutting taxes and spending. what is your plan and how would

you pay for your programs like 7000 more police? mr. sliwa: your fantasy are never going to come about. it is a fantasy. let's deal with the reality. you already have a plan in boston. where you pay for the taxes in the future. this is a great plan in which universities and other schools have bought out properties that are now taken from the real estate market and taken from property taxes. we could raise a billion dollars from columbia university, nyu, which are in the real estate business. and that matters can -- madison square garden. that is how you raise some money to get more police officers into the streets in the five boroughs. and then the police will be on the subways and they will be patrolling the old-fashioned way.

going up and down the moving of subway cars where people want to see the visual protection, especially women who are being assaulted. this morning a woman with a gun to her head, and armed robbery because you do not have enough cops. >> i have a question for you. this talk about history. as kevin are you raised income taxes. now you're proposing some tax release. where would you get the money for 5000 new police officers? >> i think your question was very well taken. this plan is based on a myth. he is going to raise taxes, albany is going to raise taxes, but the money will only go to new york city. that could never happen. it is impossible. he said he would raise the corporate tax the same as new jersey. it would actually be double that.

you would see new yorkers fleeing to florida. we would be alone. you have to be realistic with revenue. you have to go through the city budget and find savings. i started. at a $10 million deficit. i closed it and i added services. we can do the same with new york city. >> as mary would not increase spending in the new york city budget? mr. cuomo: whatever additional spending would be revenue neutral. mr. sliwa: that is impossible. you have to cut taxes for people to stay here. corporations are not going to stay here. they will be lured south to cities. you have to cut the property taxes. the income taxes. >> thank you. thank you. mr. mamdani: andrew cuomo thinks it's all right to spend $60 million to fund his legal

defense for accusations from more than a dozen women of sexual harassment but if i say we should spend the same amount of money on delivering cheaper groceries in the city through a pilot program, that is unfounded. mr. cuomo: i did not bring those lawsuits. mr. mamdani: they were brought against you. mr. cuomo: they were brought by the attorney general, which i said was political. >> they have still been making their way through the courts this year. mr. cuomo: and i have been dropped from the case. >> not all of them. mr. cuomo: for the assembly meant to say all this money that he wants to pass, the one thing he did do was vote for a pay raise for himself. and he has the worst attendance record. >> i asked the state comptroller's office this week. just those sexual harassment cases cost about $21 million.

i just want to clarify. >> thank you. we have to talk about quality of life in the city. this turned to everyday life in the city. some issues a mayor can impact where a number of new yorkers call. have you ever called 311 and if so for what? mr. mamdani: i called 3114 issues with heating in my apartment. i hear from new yorkers time and time again from people who are frustrated that they can track their group or each block by block but when they call 311, it is just hoping and praying. it is not an actual appointment. mr. sliwa: there used to be that song 911 is a joke by public enemy. 311 is a joke. you can call it over and over again. >> have you called? mr. sliwa: yes, i have called

them many times and got no response. i never get good responses from them. mr. cuomo: i have heard a lot of complaints about 311 so i actually made a call myself to see if the complaints were bona fide. i was dropped twice. then they were going to send someone to help a homeless woman in distress. i did not want to interrupt. >> you are all expressing frustration. last year 311 received 30 million contacts from new yorkers. i wonder if you had a sense across the five boroughs with the top two quality -- types of complaints were? mr. sliwa: pot holes. constantly, potholes. people's undercarriage is ripped out. >> the second one? mr. sliwa: rats. the city is flooded with rats. >> what do you think they are? mr. cuomo: homeless and rats.

mr. mamdani: housing and noise. >> the answer is noise and illegal parking. >> that is right. let's talk about noise. they fall into a couple of categories. there is residential which is the neighbors with the loud music. the second one is a street or sidewalk. with the loud construction and workers outside. as mayor, what can you do to help the city that never sleeps get a little bit of rest? mr. cuomo: i think if the 31 one system worked well, if there was actually contact with people, i think new yorkers would be responsive. i think we have to change that you close in the city. right now it is toxic. it is divisive. everyone is angry at everyone. i think if we have public safety

that is functional again and new yorkers are part of that system, they would be more cooperative. >> mr. sliwa, how would you quiet down the city that never sleeps? mr. sliwa: in the outer boroughs i see problems of the time, quality of life issues. 18 wheel tractor trailers are parked everywhere. garbage that is not picked up and collected. we have seen trash cans taken away by the sanitation department. the quality of life has diminished noticeably. so naturally people are going to revert to 311. it is important that a mayor be able to provide services to all the people. they believed in his quality of life is diminished, the next stop is sell your house and leave the city. my goal is to improve and not move. mr. mamdani: what we have seen

is one of the biggest sources of noise in the city is from congestion. with the implementation of congestion pricing, we have seen noise complaints drop. i would continue to find ways to ensure that we have reduced congestion across the city in one of the ways is by making the slowest buses in america ones that are fast and free so new yorkers cannot only live a life of excellent quality but be able to get around the city not worrying if they have the money. it is already out of reach for one in five new yorkers. mr. sliwa: we have here the author of congestion pricing and the presence of congestion pricing. i am the only candidate who is opposed. it means storefronts closing. >> we need to move on. otherwise i will have to place a call to 311 about candidates going over. we will move on to illegal parking. it takes many neighborhoods.

recently a councilmember released a study that found that 450 vehicles are parked illegally during the day in downtown brooklyn. many with fake or government placards. that is just one snapshot of the city but you hear similar complaints everywhere. i would use -- how would you fix this specific problem? mr. sliwa: you have people who have created fake placards. you have people with fake license plates. these are all violations against the department of transportation regulations of where you can park a vehicle. there is no enforcement. that is because we do not have police. we have a lot trying bikes going up and down. we have motorbikes not following rules and regulations. they should be licensed. they should have a way of being identified. >> your time is up. mr. sliwa: people are terrified going onto the streets. mr. mamdani: we have to showcase

that accountability is true even for new yorkers living in the city or those who are working for the city. the violation of traffic laws, no matter who is doing it, to show that that accountability is something my city government will do. mr. cuomo: on the quality of life, you're right, it is very poor. on the plaque. so i would make it simple. i would recall all the city placards and reissue only those that are bona fide. on day one. on the quality of life issues, the worst that could happen is if the assemblyman's proposal for legalizing prostitution went through, that would be terrible for the quality of life. he also does not want to enforce misdemeanors. or larceny or assault. mr. mamdani: i want to be very clear. i've never called for the legalization of prostitution and i'm not calling for it either today. i have never said anything about enforcing misdemeanors. this is yet another figment of

your imagination. mr. cuomo: that is their position. do not enforce misdemeanors. you are on the bill in albany as a sponsor to decriminalize prostitution. mr. mamdani: the difference between myself and andrew cuomo is there is no one who is actually telling me what to do instead of the men and women who call this city home. mr. cuomo: who told you to legalize prostitution? mr. sliwa: you cannot escape this. you signed a law doing away with loitering for prostitution. in jackson heights and flushing. you want to add to it. which will diminish the quality of life. >> nobody is here and you and we actually have a question on that. >> we want to go to queens where

we know prostitution has been an ongoing complaint. mayor adams formed a task force and ordered sweeps by the nypd but the situation continues. especially around a certain avenue. as mayor, how would you handle this situation. you have 30 seconds. mr. mamdani: i want to first be clear that i am not and have never called for the legalization of prostitution. if you are happy for what has happened on roosevelt avenue, you should go for andrew cuomo. my policy is to actually take on sex trafficking. to have zero tolerance for violence against women and follow the advice of district attorneys we have here in new york city. they have said that prosecuting women for prostitution is something that actually leads to less safety. what we need to do is provide an economy of opportunity. >> just a quick clarification.

so no legalization. how about decriminalization? >> i do not think we should be prosecuting women who are struggling who are currently being thrown in jail and then being offered job opportunities. i think we should be providing those kinds of opportunities at the first point of interaction. mr. cuomo: bill de blasio, the assemblyman is a mini me of him. he proposed legalizing prostitution. he did not get it. so he told the cops, do not arrest any more prostitutes. there is a bill in albany that says the prostitution that a woman who is a prostitute, that would be decriminalized. that is what the bill says. and that is what he said if you listen very carefully. he would take roosevelt avenue and explode it because it would make it legal for prostitutes. >>?

? how would you handle the situation mr. cuomo: you have to enforce the law. i want to roosevelt avenue and talks to the neighbors. mr. sliwa: i have dealt with his back in the 1980's and 1990's in hells kitchen and chelsea which were overrun with open-air prostitution. and times square. you do not go after the women. the women of the victims. you lock up the john's and you should aim the john's. the madams and the pimps need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. and these absentee landlords who knowingly rent their rooms out for prostitution. many of these landlords live in florida. they did back in the 80's and 90's. they are doing it again. >> thank you. >> thank you.

we are going to talk a bit about experience and beliefs. we want to probe a bit deeper into each of your mindsets and how you will approach governing as mayor. you have touted your experience on the campaign trail time and time again but you very squarely lost the democratic primary to mr. mamdani, forcing you to run as an independent. when you announce that this you said when you get knocked down, learn the lesson and pick yourself back up. what lessons did you learn and what do you think it said about you, something you did wrong or something you need to change about yourself? mr. cuomo: i think the primary campaign i did not do enough on social media. which is a very effective medium now. i think the assemblyman did a better job on tiktok and social media than i did during the campaign. that has changed now. i have also increased my activity significantly.

my agenda is exactly the same. i am the democrat. he is a democratic socialist. he called barack obama people and a liar. he did not vote for kamala harris. i will fight the bureaucracy. and i will deliver results. new yorkers need the mayor to get something done. these are all words and theories. i am a manager who can get something done. >> this is a question about self reflection post was there any deeper self reflection? >> mr. mamdani: more accessibility. i have to say, it has been over an hour of this debate and we have not heard the governor say affordability. that is why he lost the primary and he will lose the general election. you can lie all you want but the

truth is that i voted for kamala harris. i am not funded by bill ackman who called her unqualified to be the president of this country. mr. cuomo: there are a lot of new yorkers who support me. a lot of jewish new yorkers who support me because they think you are antisemitic. it is not about trump or republicans. it is about you. >> do you think he is antisemitic? 6 how to make those judgments about people. i know there are many jewish people who believe he is antisemitic. i believe in not condemning the globalized intifada, what he has said about hamas. >> i don't mean to interrupt but i covered your speech in a synagogue where you said anti-zionism is anti-semitism, there is no difference. you were talking about mr. mamdani. mr. cuomo: i make that statement

all the time. i was not referring to him. >> a brief response and then we have to move on. mr. mamdani: i'd announced hamas again and again. it will never be enough for andrew cuomo. he wants to call me the first muslim on the precipice of leading the city a terrorist sympathizer. he is saying to new yorkers that they should be fearful. >> we have a specific question for you. >> you are the democratic nominee and you are a member of a political organization that may be less familiar to new yorkers, the democratic socialists of america, which police in dismantling capitalism. new york city is the global headquarters of the finance industry. how will you be the way her -- mayor of wall street? >> i will be the mayor of this entire city.

something every new yorker can feel in their pockets. one in four of our neighbors is living in poverty. we cannot look at that as the cost of doing business. it is something we have to change. i will do that by fighting for my neighbors in queens who i've come to know. the ones who own toy stores and diners and drycleaners and the ones who work there. right now all of them are being pushed out of the city by corporate greed, private equity, and a politics that refuses to fight for them. >> a quick follow-up. a lot of democratic -- hispanics fear socialism. what would you tell them? >> i would not be here without the support of latino new yorkers because it was the majority of their support that helped me make the democratic nominee. what democratic socialism means is a belief in the dignity of each and every new yorker. the responsibility of the city

government has to deliver that dignity. that is why i'm am talking about childcare. about freezing the rent. housing is not a human right in the way we practice our politics in the city. that is why i talk about making buses fast and free. >> mr. sliwa, i would like to talk to you, because you are here with us four years ago on the same stage for the general election debate and you lost it. why do you believe new york is ready to elect a republican this time around? mr. sliwa: did i not warn you four years ago that eric adams corrupt and we would have chaos? did i not? of course i did. and i get praise for that. now i'm trying to get people to vote for me, not just on the republican line but also my wife nancy, who is the best thing that ever happened for me. she created the first ever independent protective animal laws that calls for no kill

shelters and putting animal abusers in jail. the other thing that differentiates me from my adversaries as i am opposed to destroying residential neighborhoods. both of them or for that city. when you vote for me, whether on the republican line or to protect animals line, turn your ballot over and vote no on all those initiatives and referendums. they say how can you work with the democratic majority in the counsel? he is in agreement with me. the democratic city council people are in agreement with me. no to the city of yes which will take your homes and provide you with lithium-ion warehouse batteries. i am the only candidate who is opposed to the city of yes. >> i have a quick follow-up. how do you bring down costs if you do not build more housing? mr. sliwa: it is very simple to build housing. you look at new york city.

we have so many dense areas where you no longer can use the commercial space. there used to be office space. you just convert it into residential housing. you don't need to go into the outer boroughs. you don't have to use wetlands or parklands. if you build a new building, it takes five years. if you convert, he can be done in a year. >> i want to change the pace and get a sense of what you think about political leadership. we are curious about who you admire. who is the best modern-day u.s. president? mr. cuomo: modern-day? i am partial, i was bill clinton's's housing and urban development secretary. we built affordable housing all across the u.s. empowerment zones. mr. mamdani: i would say fdr. mr. cuomo: he is modern-day? mr. sliwa: i would say fdr also

if that is modern-day. the man who ended up being loved by democrats and republicans alike. the greatest governor we have ever had. george pataki. [laughter] he beat your father. mr. cuomo: we were talking about president. >> who you thought the best modern president. mr. sliwa: best president in our lifetime? i would say ronald reagan. >> how about the best new york city mayor? mr. sliwa: rudy giuliani who endorsed me last week. i would have a little bit of michael bloomberg thrown in. mr. mamdani: i think the best new york city mayor of all time was laguardia. mr. cuomo: it was bill de blasio in the last debate. >> who is yours? mr. cuomo: is it of all time or modern time?

>> best new york city mayor. mr. cuomo: it is laguardia. mr. mamdani: we agree. mr. cuomo: recently i was say mayor dinkins and mayor bloomberg. >> how about a political leader dead or alive that you most admire? mr. mamdani: i admire bernie sanders. mr. cuomo: my father. mr. sliwa: i said it already, george pataki. most loved by democrats and republicans. the greatest governor in our lifetime. >> i just have one more. who supports kathy hochul for reelection? mr. mamdani: it is a decision that should be made out to this general election. >> mr. cuomo, you handpicked or as your lieutenant governor. mr. cuomo: i have to know who is running. mr. mamdani: i would add that i think that kathy hochul has been doing a good job. >> do you support her for reelection? mr. mamdani: delivering for new yorkers and standing up to donald trump.

i am focusing on the vendor. i appreciate her support. >> thank you, candidates. mr. sliwa: how about a shout out? a republican governor. >> >> let's turn to education. there are number of issues facing schools. one that has been controversial is the gifted and talented program which offers accelerated instruction to elementary school children. wister mamdani you said you want to phase out the gifted intelligent program while mr. cuomo and mr. sliwa want to expand it. what is your plan for the program, you have one minute. mr. cuomo: gifted and talented? mr. sliwa: gifted and talented, i have two younger son, they both attempted to get into gifted and talented, they failed. it did not present a problem with their future education. we don't have enough slots. right now there are 1900.

we need to have at least 5000 slots around the city. what they have not done at the department of education is make these tests available in black and hispanic communities. so, for instance, you have 77,000 children who are four yea rs old. only 10,000 have taken the test. only 2000 are accepted. why not offer the test to all 77,000? and, even if it gifted and talented class only has three or four in a minority school, give these children an opportunity to excel, too. that would make it fair for everybody. >> mr. cuomo, how is your plan differ from mr. sliwa's? mr. cuomo: first i would support mayoral control. i think it would be a terrible mistake to rollback mayoral control. that has probably been the most dramatic educational reform in 40 years. you go back to the old system that had local school boards which were corrupt, patronage mills etc. who runs the system is number

one. i would expand the gifted and talented programs. accessibility. i offer preparatory courses. to any student parent that wanted to take them. i would double the number of specialized high school from nine to 18. and i would keep the sat. as it is. >> thank you. mr. sliwa: can i add one thing? there has been no discussion about vocational high schools for so many young men and women. we need to expand vocational training for those who are not -- >> we want to hear from mr. mamdani. why should the gifted and talented program be phased out in your opinion? mr. mamdani: i want to be very clear. i've spoken solely of gifted and talented for kindergarten. i do not believe then kindergartners should be subject to a singular assessment. i have not spoken of any gifted intelligent programs older than for kindergarten. i'm slowly speaking about kindergarten. and i believe that we should be

delivering the best education across the country here in this city. we will do that by following through on the proposals i put forward to hire 1000 more teachers every single year through our community to classroom program. one that will ensure that we are providing each student, high school or an adult looking to become a teacher with $12,000 in tuition subsidy so they can start to fulfill the seven to 9000 additional teachers we need so we can actually deliver on the class-size reduction act which i was proud to pass in albany that will ensure that children and teachers actually have a manageable ratio in the classroom so that they can learn because today that learning is being rendered impossible by the number of kids in that same classroom. it is time to make sure that number is lowered. mr. cuomo: you do not believe the mayor should run the system? mr. mamdani: i've been critical of mayoral control because of the way it has been used to take away the voice of parents and educators and students. i think it is important that those same voices be a part of how we lead the system. mr. cuomo: so, argue for or against mayoral control?

mr. mamdani: i'm against mayoral control. i think there is importance of developing something that actually enshrines all of those forces together. >> mr. cuomo, you tried to curtail it when mayor de blasio was in office. >> did you hear what she said? >> you proposed a curtailment of mayoral control when mayoral de blasio -- mayor de blasio was in control. some propose curtailment if you are such a champion of it tonight. mr. cuomo: i never proposed reversing mayoral control. >> no, shortening the duration of time you have control of schools. mr. cuomo: yes, for renewal. >> mr. mamdani, how much control of schools would you be giving up, the sharing arrangement. i may want to share with parents and with districts and parents, or would you give up full control and is that an accountability problem? mr. mamdani: the mayor needs to retain accountability so new yorkers know exactly who they can come to when they have critiques and we have to develop a system where we do not have

what we saw just recently where you have hours and hours of parents and teachers and students testifying only to be overruled without any consideration by the panel -- mr. cuomo: that is called mayoral control. >> switching to a question, to students with learning challenges. parents of students with dyslexia adhd and autism are very well aware of the fact that school system in new york city is not doing enough to make -- to meet their children's educational needs. how would you help these parents and students? mayor adams have expanded -- what would you do more broadly? mr. mamdani: some of the initiatives mayor adams have launched with this chance i have been showing positive signs. especially for literacy and for preparedness, especially as it were in net national crisis on reading and mathematical comprehension. i think those are programs that should be furthered, should be invested in.

all while also ensuring we are giving teachers greater flexibility in the curriculum they are actually teaching because of what i've heard from many of those teachers is that too often the curriculum being procured in the $10 billion a year that is 1 -- >> you have 30 seconds. mr. sliwa: we have $41,000 we are spending on each student now. by fourth grade, two thirds, cannot read write or do math at grade level. we should be ashamed of herself. 100,000 less students than last year, one third of truants. we have 200 school with 200 students or less. eric adams is not exhibiting mayoral control. the mayor should run the board of education. the old board of education. it is now the department of education. the bureaucracy, you have 13 deputy chancellors, you have 50 department heads. >> i was asking about --

learning differences. we will move on to mr. cuomo. mr. sliwa: the money should be going to. >> mr. sliwa, thank you. >> mr. cuomo, what is your plan to deal with the challenges of students who have learning differences? mr. mamdani: we are losing young families -- mr. cuomo: when the child becomes of school-age, they go to the suburbs, they go to new jersey, they will not sacrifice their child on the secondary education system. the core competency, reading and math, below 50%. is a disgrace. the gifted and talented programs gives people hope, i do believe mayor adams has made progress on the evaluations and services for children who require special needs and assistance, but obviously we have to do more. >> we have another question about schools and in the last year the schools enrolled more than 36,000 migrant students. many learning english for the first time. from class-size to bilingual teachers, that puts a big strain

on the system. mr. cuomo, what can you do to help migrant students but also the staff you have 30 seconds? mr. cuomo: first i think it was wrong of the state to put so many migrants in new york city. new york city had the overwhelming majority of migrants. >> but they are already here? mr. cuomo: close to 80%. the state should have put them all across the state. nassau, suffolk, upstate, so other governments could have -- >> they were bussed here from texas. mr. cuomo: you could have brought some to nassau, 20 miles, westchester. yes, well, that is how the problem was created. >> we understand. mr. cuomo: from here the state give the city the bill. it is now increase the challenge in our education system. the state is going to have to help financially. >> you did not answer the question. mr. mamdani. mr. mamdani: when i spoke about her community to classroom program, the importance of it it

is not just bringing in 1000 more teachers every year, it is also that we would bring in a number of more bilingual educators. because what we've heard from a number of adults who have taught in other countries and now live in new york city is a process by which they get their certification approved to teach here is one that is onerous and one that is pricing many of them out. that is why this is a program that will directly address that, to increase that bilingual capacity in our school system so that we can teach every single child no matter when they got here. >> public education>> this certification has been offered. and it has not been successful. how can you make more teachers to be, you know, that they want to do this? mr. mamdani: part of what i heard is that the tuition cost as part of the same certification exams are onerous for many of these adults that are looking to switch careers. that is why this program is built upon providing $12,000 in tuition assistance that would lead to 1000 more teachers every year. >> salaries would also be good. mr. sliwa: we have not just migrant children, we have the children of the homeless, over 120,000, we have not yet

discussed charter, parochial schools letter closing. normally parochial schools would've been able to take some of these children. we need to expand the number of charter schools that are doing an amazing job, especially in the inner-city. why not make that available to migrant children and to the homeless children who are coming from shelters all across the city who need this special teaching skills that have lifted children in the charter schools? we need to give choice, because that is our most precious resource, our children. >> now i'll move on. mr. cuomo: i agree. >> allow me to turn to the century city situation and let's talk about also undocumented immigrants. 26 federal plaza has become a flagship and federal immigration -- we reported that asylum-seekers are showing up for those routine appointments, not facing and criminal challenges and they end up being deported. so, by the show of hands, we would like to know if you

believe that you, and if you can do something to stop this. ok. so, mr. cuomo, you have a minute to explain. mr. cuomo: the law is the law. and i would have an attorney assigned to every person who is undergoing any review by the federal government or any legal proceeding. and put the full weight of the city government behind it. and make sure they are legally protected. >> mr. sliwa, what is your plan? mr. sliwa: going after the criminals, that is the job of immigration and naturalization service, i.c.e., but when they have to perform under a quarter because i speak to many of the men and women who serve this country, putting too much pressure. to go outside the court houses, to home depot, shakeups are in the backs of restaurants and hospitality businesses, which have a hired these migrants and they are central workers now. i can tell you i have three

sons, none of them are going to do that work. some americans will. but most wont. we need to protect the migrants who are workers, who are essential workers and use ice to go after the drug dealers, the gang bangers, the sexual creditors, and those who are sex trafficking and involved in narco terrorism. mr. mamdani: i'd be proud to be the first immigrant mayor of the city and generations and it is a 26 federal plaza that i've seen what used to be moments when new yorkers will be getting their citizenship turn into moments of tragedy. where judges are asking new yorkers where they are for routine immigration check whether at they are prepared to leave in the very same clothing they arrived in at the courthouse. i agree that we need more legal representation. i also think we need to actually be able to stand up to donald trump. because i heard from pastor who told me how he accompanied a member of his congregation. he sat there as a judge was determining her fate. they managed to convince the

judge to replace the deportation order with the tps order but they knew that ice would not care about that change and they had to sprint her out of the building into the elevator to get her back to brooklyn. >> thank you. >> i want to talk about new york city's economy, change of pace. everybody supports growing new york city's economy. the mayor is our chief salesman to the business world hurt so we want to mix it up, test your persuasive powers. we are calling in an elevator pitch. in this in error, imagine you are talking to the ceo of a big tech company -- in this scenario. deciding to move its headquarters to new york city or to dallas. the ceo's concern new york raised his corporate taxes and employees will pay more for everything. looking into the camera and make your pitch to that ceo to come here and not there. do it in 30 seconds. mr. mamdani: new york city has something that dallas or know where the city can offer and that is the quality of life. there is the arts on the culture, that is the people that make the city so special.

and i is the mayor of the city will deliver that quality of life, will deliver the safety that is the cornerstone of affordability agenda and will ensure that companies choose to come to this city and also choose to stay in this city. because so much of what drives the tech sector is a hunger for innovation, an on repenting desire to actually innovate and those are the very things that will characterize my city government. >> what do you say about the corporate taxes and also the staggering cost for the workers? mr. mamdani: we are going to make the city more affordable so that workers will want to work at those companies can actually be able to do so. and we are going to ensure that this city continues to be one where we see businesses opening and also staying open. >> mr. cuomo, something of a reverse and error. the ceo of a similar company with 1000 good jobs tells you she's very close to moving her head quarters out of new york city. she cites everything from taxes to the crushing cost of living for her employees in new york city. how do you convince that ceo to

stay? look into the camera and make your elevator pitch. mr. cuomo: we know that other companies -- >> mr. cuomo. mr. cuomo: i'm sorry. i'm sorry. um, the question is to me in this camera? >> the question is how you would convince the ceo of a company with 1000 good jobs who is looking to move out of new york city because of the high cost of living for her employees and taxes. how you would convince her to stay in new york city. mr. cuomo: in 15 seconds? >> 30 seconds. mr. cuomo: ok, ok. i get it. i understand your frustration. i understand that the far left has been raising taxes and making businesses feel like the enemy. we get it. that is gone. the dsa, the socialist orientation, we are not socialists, didn't work in venezuela, did not work in cuba, did not work here. we have to work with business.

we want to be your partner. we want to have taxes that help us grow our city but are competitive for you. >> we are out of time. mr. cuomo: and we want to partner to grow your business in new york city together. >> let's talk about business because let's assume the big tech company that we pitch to mr. mamdani has decided to move to new york and it's 1000 good paying jobs and the ceo wants to be based in astoria, queens. but there is a lot of pushback of residents who don't want the noise on the traffic. how can you convince the residents to the set -- to accept the new neighbor. you are speaking to a very powerful community. how can you convince them? mr. sliwa: we saw that with amazon. aoc led the charge and local elected officials to say no to amazon. that was a big mistake. i would say this. our companies are being recruited away by the day. we have young people who are going to school here, who could

fill their needs in these high tech industries who being lured away. we need to cut their income taxes for five years, if you go to skew her and graduate here, no income taxes for five years. an income tax holiday. and the most important thing we have to be able to assure the executives that this will be a city where we do not lock up two faced any but lock up the criminals who make it intolerable. >> we need to move on to a subject that is. mr. cuomo: the socialist that stopped amazon and cost of 25,000 jobs. >> we need to move on to a crisis that is very important to a lot of voters and that his people struggling with mental health problems. roughly 500 times a day someone calls 911 about an emotionally disturbed person. in a limited number of those cases, when the person is not believed to be violent, social workers are dispatched instead of police. mr. mamdani, you want to do that

on a much larger scale. so we want to know, how will this work? when will you send police versus social workers? you have one minute. mr. mamdani: we have a program here in new york city called be heard. it is attempting to do this kind of work but we had a mayor who as insured it has been unsuccessful. to the extent that even when there was an assessment of 60% of calls that could have been addressed by be heard, be heard was not actually responsive to it. and that is because we have not had the political will to deliver on what is a crisis that affects so many new yorkers. which is the mental health crisis. what my plan will do, and innovative plan at the department of community safety, will take what has worked elsewhere in the country, the program in eugene, oregon where they took 24,000 911 mental health calls out of the police department. they were able to respond to all but 311 without police assistance. when there is a concern for safety or of violence, absolutely you would have the police there. but what we are doing today is

actually ensuring that every single call is going to the police. and not allowing them to do the work they signed up to do. >> how will you determine whether there is a concern for safety or violence? what is a line between the calls which police will be dispatched and the calls to which social workers will be dispatched? mr. mamdani: the line is also going to be focused on violence and the threat of violence. and i also trust the operators who will be receiving those calls to make that determination as they do every day today for so many emergency services. >> two really quick points. there has been a lot of discussion that you would send social workers to domestic violence calls, which police are concerned about. you are saying no? ok. the other question is, how can you be sure that situation that does not sound violent when someone calls 91 one does not become violent in the moment when police -- would police be assigned as backup? mr. mamdani: what you do is you actually follow the expert that have shown us this can work when you are willing to ensure that

you are trusting the mental health experts who have been doing this work elsewhere in the country where they call for the police when they need the police, but their initial impulse when there is no violence in that call is to address the mental health at the heart of it. >> mr. sliwa, you have encountered plenty of these situations in your deck is of work with the guardian angels. do you see that his approach working. you are not a police officer but you out in situations. mr. sliwa: boy, another fantasy that is not reality. eugene, oregon. have you ever been cheating? -- been to eugene. come on, this is new york city. we have so many emotionally disturbed persons that are in need of help. i will tell you this. andrew, you closed the mental health beds that were taking care of them. 40,000 when you came into office, down to 4000 because of your cuts which force these people to live on the streets, in the parks in the subways. these people need to be able to be removed, they need mental health care, we need to make our

shelters safe. i have been in one third of the shelters run by the department of homeland service -- homeless services, it is darwinian, if we can make a shelters safe, we can have, especially veterans who are not giving any attention to who we put out in wards island at 10:00 at night, released during the day, don't give any training, have them roam about, and obviously when you have nothing to do, you end up getting into trouble. this is a disastrous homeless and emotionally disturbed plan that we have in your city. and i'm the mayor that can change it because i deal with them every day in the streets and in the parks. >> mr. cuomo, do you think that the nypd handles these calls for emotionally disturbed people in distress well? is the river something in the middle? mr. cuomo: yes. i think the assemblyman deals in theory, there is an advantage when you actually have experience. i have run homeless programs. i ran the homeless programs for the federal government. 100 cities all across the

nation. when you get a call on the telephone about a mentally cool person who may be violent it is a very dangerous situation. and i think you should have a mental health worker accompanied with a police officer, because these can be explosive situations. i have been in situations that seemed calm and fine and then erupted into violence very quickly. and it got very dangerous very quickly. i would have a social worker with a police officer. and get the people off the streets. that is the humane thing and get them the care they need. not the institution, not institutionalized 40,000 people. you have supportive housing now which is what we have. an forensic beds for people who need them. mr. sliwa: a police officer is their first, he has to wait for the arrival of a mental health? mr. cuomo: i would send them as a team. mr. sliwa: as a team.

that is not realistic. you are dealing with fantasy, also. the police officers will be the first one on the scene. and they are always going to have to deal with that first and foremost. >> says he has experience running homeless programs. what he has experience doing is cutting funding for the very programs that prevented homelessness in new york city, as the governor, he cut funding for the advantage program which was putting new yorkers who had otherwise been in shelters, otherwise been homeless into apartments. i met one of those new yorkers who told me -- >> brief response. mr. cuomo: he is talking about a program 14 years ago that was a pilot program that had a work requirement and it was very controversial, $65 million. >> we are talking about advantage. mr. cuomo: it was 14 years ago, 60 5 million, i added billions to the homeless budget. funded the homeless budget larger than any governor in history. mr. mamdani: he cut that program, homelessness skyrocketed. >> we have air this --

mr. cuomo: 14 years ago. >> it was during the bloomberg administration and yes, ok. >> as new york city confronts the impact of climate change, one issue already on the desk of the next mayor is local law 97, passed in 2019, it requires large buildings to gradually reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 2030. that may require very expensive upgrades to buildings which some landlords and co-op owners say they simply cannot afford. we are wondering how each of you would enforce the law. you have 30 seconds. mr. cuomo. mr. cuomo: local 97, i support implementing the -- because it has to be done and no way that is not so disruptive to businesses and residences that they just give up and pay the fine and don't even try to comply. which is what is going to happen now. it would be cheaper for them to pay the fine than comply. that obviously will accomplish

nothing. so, yes, i support the law. yes, we have to implement it, but we have to implement it in a way that is feasible. >> mr. sliwa? mr. sliwa: local 97 will destroy those people who have invested in co-ops and condos.1 100,000. you andrew cuomo took indian point offline, 25% of our electrical for capacity with no replacement which has caused skyrocketing electricity bills and now we will force condo and co-op owners to electrify, maintenance fees will go up 30%. these people will be leaving their condos and co-ops. they need relief. what i am mayor, i would slow the process down. we need our co-op owners and condo owners to stay in new york city. mr. cuomo: to your point, indian was started before me. it was a very dangerous situation. we had nuclear facilities upstate.

in my proposal, what i did was run cables from the nuclear facilities upstate to bring the power down state. entry point was, had tournament -- indian point had 21 people in the kelso. >> local law 97, how would you enforce the laws made? i mr. mamdani: i support the law. and i would make it easier to comply. what have heard from somebody it is cheaper to pay the fine than to get a country compliance. i think the city has a role here and procurement at a large scale of so much of what is necessary in these infrastructure investments. we have seen to be done in the clean energy challenging. it is time to do it right here in new york city, to assist those condo and co-op orders and meeting the standards we desperately need to hit. >> chapman, new york city loves its parades. and the mayor is off in front and center. you have all said that you want to be mayor for all new yorkers. so will you march in all of the parades that mayors have traditionally marched in or are they any that you would boycott?

mr. sliwa: i think i mayor has a responsibility to march in parades. to celebrate whatever that parade is performing it. i have been a grand marshal of the polasky day parade. i was proud -- >> are there any that you would boycott? would you boycott any of the cities. y's parades? mr. sliwa: no. mr. cuomo: unless i discriminate. mr. mamdani: there are many parades i would not be attending because i would be focusing on the work of leading the city. mr. sliwa: which parades? mr. mamdani: i've already missed a number of those parades. i don't have the list of all of the parades i've missed. mr. sliwa: a mayor should be going to all parades. >> are there any parades that do not exist that you think should? mr. mamdani? mr. mamdani: i haven't thought much about parades to be honest with you. >> mr. cuomo? mr. cuomo: i have not thought, i

do not even know what parade does not exist. >> could be for anything, mr. sliwa? mr. sliwa: every parade has the right to exist in new york city. i would ask you, mr. mamdani, would you -- curtail the christopher columbus statute. mr. mamdani: my focus is on affordability. i'm not thinking about statues. mr. sliwa: not answering the question. mr. cuomo: he gave the finger to the columbus day statute. that is what we call it. >> we are in the last couple minutes and we thought we would have some questions that may be give a glimpse into your life and personality away from the political podium. what is your go to breakfast order at the bodega? mr. sliwa. mr. sliwa: eggs and cheese on a roll, no salt. mr. cuomo: same thing, no salt, also. mr. mamdani: egg and cheese on a roll with jalapenos. >> have you ever purchased anything in a cannabis shop and what did you buy? mr. mamdani: i have.

[laughs] i have purchased marijuana at a legal cannabis shop. mr. cuomo: no. mr. sliwa: when i was shot five times, i had crohn's disease, i did use medical marijuana, yes. >> in a dream scenario, it is not possible but the mets are playing game seven of the world series on the same night as the knicks are playing game seven of the nba championship and you can only go to one. which one will it be, mr. sliwa? mr. sliwa: which baseball team? >> this is the mets, game seven, the knicks game seven. mr. sliwa: i'm a yankee fan, true baseball fans either like one or the other. i'm going to the knicks. that is my team, the knicks. >> mr. cole? mr. cuomo: i'm going to go half-and-half. i can make it back and forth. mr. mamdani: this is what new yorkers are sick. i would be there for the next. >> a lot of ground cover. thank you candidates for a dispirited debate. you as well, we hope you got a lot out of it.

new york city viewers and new york city voters. the new york city campaign finance board, we think heartily and urge you to check out their website, nycvotes.org. we certainly thank you for watching and remember, go vote tuesday, november 4th. have a good night. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.

>> this is politics. anything was needed to demonstrate just how fundamentally uninterested democrats are in supporting our troops and defending our country, just take a look at this vote. >> republicans can talk all the political stuff they want. we are on the side of the american people. because they need help. ♪